Season over. Meanwhile Columbus just picked up Ryan Dzingel. Looks like they’re gearing up for a long run.
Ot: penguins
- Thread starter SoufOaklin4Life
- Start date
Maybe he was getting the shakes.
Franchise with another 89% save and 4 gaa performance
Being diplomatic, I’ll call it unfortunate. Two bad goals in the blink of an eye to turn a W into a loss.
No you are right. Murray was just, I mean you have to make those saves, especially with the job the 4 guys played in front of you. He was not good at all. He looked like he was going to be great and win this game, and he just failed. He failed. No other explanation needed. He failed.
It's on Murray. And yes, am I concerned?? Yeah.
But also I just don't think this team has it overall so I hope they don't trade a #1 pick for a rental.
I dunno Souf. I would rather see what happens, then this off season make some big moves like Phil and hey maybe you package Murray, and retool the team. I wouldn't mind seeing Jarry here right now and see what happens.
I’m not confident the window is open much longer.
I’d rather go down swinging
It’ll be interesting to see if any major moves happen between now and Monday. I have to believe Kessel and possibly Hornqvist are being shopped.
- Tough and bad loss tonight.
- The four defensemen overall played very well under difficult circumstances.
- As several have said, goals 1, 3, and 4 were all played poorly by Murray ..... Goal#1 he was off angle (was in a decent position to make a stop on a shot from the left face-off dot but unfortunately the shot was from the upper inner left circle so the far net over the glove hand was open and that is where the shot went), Goal#3 was poor post play where on a relatively bad angle shot, he didn't have his lead pad down flat on the ice in the r-VH position and the puck shot along the ice went under that right pad, Goal#4 was a shot from the high slot through the 5 hole. Murray was in good position at the top of the crease and butterflied getting his left pad down and stick in proper position but didn't get his right pad down and the puck went under it for the winning goal in OT (Schultz did play Goal#4 poorly as he let Giroux get inside him into the slot for a good shot opportunity) ..... on all three goals above, IMO, Murray could have and needed to play them better.
- I'd love to be in the room when Murray and his goalie coach go over film and on the ice in practice to see what they are working on ..... would be pretty interesting for me .... something seems a bit off there.
- We don't look like a playoff team right now but there is time to improve and make them ..... the severity and duration of the injuries to Letang and Dumoulin may play a significant role in whether we make the playoffs or not...... unfortunately even with those two D-men healthy, this team has several other flaws that we have discussed several times before (difficulty in puck retrieval and breakouts from our end, inconsistency in goaltending, sometimes difficulty with secondary scoring (Kessel/Hornqvist not scoring goals), poor special teams play, etc.).
- We'll see if Rutherford makes any deals ..... however, assets are limited unless we want to trade top players to get other top players...... to get good players, we would probably end up overpaying at this point.
- Would be pretty disastrous if we don't make the playoffs and likely will lead to some significant changes in the off season.
- Need to get ready for a BIG game with the Columbus Blue Jackets on Tuesday.
- The four defensemen overall played very well under difficult circumstances.
- As several have said, goals 1, 3, and 4 were all played poorly by Murray ..... Goal#1 he was off angle (was in a decent position to make a stop on a shot from the left face-off dot but unfortunately the shot was from the upper inner left circle so the far net over the glove hand was open and that is where the shot went), Goal#3 was poor post play where on a relatively bad angle shot, he didn't have his lead pad down flat on the ice in the r-VH position and the puck shot along the ice went under that right pad, Goal#4 was a shot from the high slot through the 5 hole. Murray was in good position at the top of the crease and butterflied getting his left pad down and stick in proper position but didn't get his right pad down and the puck went under it for the winning goal in OT (Schultz did play Goal#4 poorly as he let Giroux get inside him into the slot for a good shot opportunity) ..... on all three goals above, IMO, Murray could have and needed to play them better.
- I'd love to be in the room when Murray and his goalie coach go over film and on the ice in practice to see what they are working on ..... would be pretty interesting for me .... something seems a bit off there.
- We don't look like a playoff team right now but there is time to improve and make them ..... the severity and duration of the injuries to Letang and Dumoulin may play a significant role in whether we make the playoffs or not...... unfortunately even with those two D-men healthy, this team has several other flaws that we have discussed several times before (difficulty in puck retrieval and breakouts from our end, inconsistency in goaltending, sometimes difficulty with secondary scoring (Kessel/Hornqvist not scoring goals), poor special teams play, etc.).
- We'll see if Rutherford makes any deals ..... however, assets are limited unless we want to trade top players to get other top players...... to get good players, we would probably end up overpaying at this point.
- Would be pretty disastrous if we don't make the playoffs and likely will lead to some significant changes in the off season.
- Need to get ready for a BIG game with the Columbus Blue Jackets on Tuesday.
The handwriting is on the wall for a team that at full strength is giving up too many bad goals.
Now with 3 of your 6 best D men on the shelf and both your goalies not making the big saves, anyone think it is going to get better?
Sid and now Geno are doing their best, but that's only two lines.
Pretty late to reform your roster, and didn't they just do that anyway?
Team seems fragile, but maybe that's because of the physical play of their opponents?
This really sucks because was looking forward to a nice playoff run by the Pens for entertainment purposes. Guess now, just get ready to go fishing...
Now with 3 of your 6 best D men on the shelf and both your goalies not making the big saves, anyone think it is going to get better?
Sid and now Geno are doing their best, but that's only two lines.
Pretty late to reform your roster, and didn't they just do that anyway?
Team seems fragile, but maybe that's because of the physical play of their opponents?
This really sucks because was looking forward to a nice playoff run by the Pens for entertainment purposes. Guess now, just get ready to go fishing...
Yeah, I just don't see any moves to make. I think you ride this out and then completely retool (trade Kessel, some others) this offseason.
Some things....
1) I think the team is beginning to tune out Mike Sullivan
2) I think Patrick Hornquist has no brain left in that head from all the concussions. He is like the scarecrow from the "Wizard of Oz".
3) I think Phil Kessell is done here. He is a complete malcontent. He needs to take his hotdog eating act to another city where he will be good again. He is another one who ignores Sullivan.
4) Not sure how long we will be minus our two best defenseman. I am not sure it matters. We were giving up plenty of goals with them and we can give up plenty without them.
5) we lead the league in hits so say the stats. If you watched that game last night the Flyers beat the snot out of us. We are so soft and fragile, nobody on this team has any guts except Mallkin. That has to be the most phony stat ever kept.
6) there has been no secondary scoring all year. We also are lost on special teams. We give up shorthanded goals at the rate of one per game it seems.
7) It is too late to retool, although I wouldn't mind seeing some late trades. That said we are fast approaching the closing of the window for Geno and Sid and looking at an era of Penguins hockey that will likely return to something resembling the early eighties prior to the arrival of the best player ever, who saved this franchise twice. We need to hang on to our number one picks now, or he will have to save it a third time.
8) This one is for Mr. Know it All, otherwise known as Souf. The hit last night was an illegal hit and should have been penalized. The shoulder of Symmonds struck Dumo's head as the principal point of contact, driving Dumo's head into the glass. It doesn't matter if it was unintentional, it is still a penalty.
9) Lastly, Sullivan has shown to be very unflexable. His way or no way at all. He does not adapt to anything going on in the league. He has the players adapt to his style of hockey. He has outlived his shelf-life. I would off him and start next season with new players we acquire when this season mercifully ends, and a have a new coach in place.
1) I think the team is beginning to tune out Mike Sullivan
2) I think Patrick Hornquist has no brain left in that head from all the concussions. He is like the scarecrow from the "Wizard of Oz".
3) I think Phil Kessell is done here. He is a complete malcontent. He needs to take his hotdog eating act to another city where he will be good again. He is another one who ignores Sullivan.
4) Not sure how long we will be minus our two best defenseman. I am not sure it matters. We were giving up plenty of goals with them and we can give up plenty without them.
5) we lead the league in hits so say the stats. If you watched that game last night the Flyers beat the snot out of us. We are so soft and fragile, nobody on this team has any guts except Mallkin. That has to be the most phony stat ever kept.
6) there has been no secondary scoring all year. We also are lost on special teams. We give up shorthanded goals at the rate of one per game it seems.
7) It is too late to retool, although I wouldn't mind seeing some late trades. That said we are fast approaching the closing of the window for Geno and Sid and looking at an era of Penguins hockey that will likely return to something resembling the early eighties prior to the arrival of the best player ever, who saved this franchise twice. We need to hang on to our number one picks now, or he will have to save it a third time.
8) This one is for Mr. Know it All, otherwise known as Souf. The hit last night was an illegal hit and should have been penalized. The shoulder of Symmonds struck Dumo's head as the principal point of contact, driving Dumo's head into the glass. It doesn't matter if it was unintentional, it is still a penalty.
9) Lastly, Sullivan has shown to be very unflexable. His way or no way at all. He does not adapt to anything going on in the league. He has the players adapt to his style of hockey. He has outlived his shelf-life. I would off him and start next season with new players we acquire when this season mercifully ends, and a have a new coach in place.
1. Agree. It happens, especially with such a dominant voice and coach. As I said in another thread, coaches in the NHL get fired because you can't fire the whole team.
2. Really curious why they rushed Hornquist back from his last concussion to play in a game before they had an 8 day layoff? Wouldn't it have been smart to sit him out that game and the layoff? Not saying this exacerbated his situation, but he hasn't been the same player since that concussion.
3. Yeah, he comes with a shelf life and it is definitely past due. I would have traded him last off season to be honest. And it says a lot that he has this incredible games played streak but he should have been sat sometimes. He is selfish.
4.Yeah if those two are out, well like I have been saying "Jimmy you better not give up your #1 pick this year".
5. I said this also in another thread. It is a horrible stat to be at the top of, because obviously the Pens aren't physical and all this stat means is the Penguins are not in possession of the puck a lot and always chasing the other team. It is a bad stat for the Pens.
6. None. And now the PP has gone dry, so this team is just in trouble.
7. I agree. I don't think there is a trade to be made in the next 36 hours, unless someone wants Tanner Pearson or Jack Johnson. Just ride this out and see what happens. Retool this offseason.
8. For the first time in Pens/Flyers history, the Pens had ZERO power plays. Of course how the PP has been performing, maybe that was a good thing. But it sure seems like the refs (league) are looking for new playoff teams, because the Pens are getting zero breaks and calls.
9. Agree. This isn't the 2016 Pens. Hey, with Joel Quenneville out there, I wouldn't be adverse to jettisoning Sully and hiring Quenneville.
You can't keep turning over the roster. You can't keep moving players up and down the lines. These guys have to get used to playing with each other. You can't be a dictator a-hole as a coach. It just doesn't work in the NHL.
Murray's honeymoon is over. I don't know what JR can do in the next 2 days. Cullen was a mistake but he keeps getting sent out there while Blueger gets splinters in his ass. I think these guys are extremely miss managed and coach continues to play favorites. I hate to say let this year play out, because the window will be slamming shut in 3-4 years. 1st rounf exit or Stanley cup, this team needs a new coach, gm, you name it.
Murray's honeymoon is over. I don't know what JR can do in the next 2 days. Cullen was a mistake but he keeps getting sent out there while Blueger gets splinters in his ass. I think these guys are extremely miss managed and coach continues to play favorites. I hate to say let this year play out, because the window will be slamming shut in 3-4 years. 1st rounf exit or Stanley cup, this team needs a new coach, gm, you name it.
In a strange way, Letang getting injured could allow the team to make a deal. If he is out for an extended time, they could put him on IR which would give them a little room to make a trade before tomorrow’s deadline. With Letang, they have virtually no cap space to make a move.
Regarding the Simmonds hit on Dumoulin ...... I agree with you that it should have been a penalty as the main contact was Simmond's shoulder to Dumoulin's chin ...... on a hit to the head, you can either give a 2 minute minor if unintentional or a match penalty if the refs deem it intentional/deliberate attempt to injure ...... I don't think you could definitely say it was an intentional attempt to injure so at least a 2 minute minor should have been called ..... all the scrum after that should have been matching penalties so that the Pens IMO should have had a 2 minute power play ..... the refs calls led to a 4 on 4 situation.
Some thought Simmonds left his skates which could lead to a charging call and since Dumoulin was injured could have lead to a match penalty ..... in reviewing multiple angles of the replay, I couldn't see a time where Simmonds definitely had both skates off the ice at the same time so I couldn't clearly see a charging penalty.
Just my opinion.
Somebody please show me a picture of Simmonds shoulder to chin being the initial point of contact. I've watched the damn thing over and over again and don't see it. Not for 1 second do I see Simmonds targeting the head, which is the only thing I can see that would make it a "dirty play".
He also does not leave his feet to make the hit.
He also does not leave his feet to make the hit.
I've also been saying that Sullivan has to get his lines set and roll with them ...... I understand that with all the new players, he is switching lines to see who jells with who but it's time to set the lines (of course, you can make some adjustments as needed but adjusting the lines between most games and even frequently within a game isn't working).
Also, the line that was playing the best was Crosby, Guentzel, and Rust ....... Sullivan switches Hornqvist for Rust on that line to "get Hornqvist going" when all he did was weaken his best line.
Also, I too don't understand why he benched Blueger when he was playing well and better as he played more ...... unless Blueger has an injury we don't know about, I don't understand that move.
Go to the 1:25 mark and slow it down frame by frame and watch the hit and rest of the video ....
https://websports.net/Journal/67990/Video--Wayne-Simmonds-Hit-On-Brian-Dumoulin/
When your coach does not believe in physical play, you continually see the cheap shot injuries our players suffer.
I think the initial point of contact was high on the shoulder, but he definitely caught Dumo's chin squarely with his shoulder. It wasn't "dirty" ala Tom Wilson. You could argue it was a bit reckless. I couldn't believe it when they posted 4 on 4, thought it could be a 5 minute major.
Sadly, this team seems to be following the path of the Blackhawks, just a few years behind. I felt after the second Cup that they should start rotating out some of the veterans and bringing in more youth and new blood. While there has been some significant roster change, they've largely stuck with the "tried and true." I was drinking the cool-aid a bit last year after they were eliminated. One reason I liked their chances was I looked at the rising cost of star players and saw we had great value in Malkin and Crosby's contracts. Theoretically, that would allow them to add more talent around those guys. But extending Hornqvist was a mistake, paying for past performance when they should've been looking for younger and newer. JJ stole more cap space since he's essentially a 3rd pairing guy at this point. Not saying that signing Guentzel was a mistake, but that eats up a lot of cap space and the room to maneuver isn't great.
It's going to take some great vision and a lot of luck to retool this team, but I think they've hamstrung themselves too much to accomplish it, even if they are daring enough to try. Ideally, next year they'd be minus Kessel, Hornqvist and JJ, for starters. Don't know how that happens, though.
Having said all the above, I've been wrong with this team before on such matters. Hopefully I am wrong again and they put it all together.
It's going to take some great vision and a lot of luck to retool this team, but I think they've hamstrung themselves too much to accomplish it, even if they are daring enough to try. Ideally, next year they'd be minus Kessel, Hornqvist and JJ, for starters. Don't know how that happens, though.
Having said all the above, I've been wrong with this team before on such matters. Hopefully I am wrong again and they put it all together.
The Pens organization doesn't believe in it. I think Sullivan, much like his mentor Tortarella would play those guys. Mario doesn't believe in it and doesn't want it. I agree with him.
Ironically, I don't believe that the hit was intentionally delivered to injure Dumoulin, which is saying something considering the offender was Wayne Symmonds. That said, it was a penalty and I don't think it deserves a suspension. It is just like when a player is careless with the stick and hits someone high with it. Even tho it was accidental, it is still a penalty.
If the refs do their job, Letang probably doesn't get hurt, although the ensuing turbulence may have occurred anyway. The Pens have been getting the shaft repeatedly, especially against the Flyers. As I noted in another post, Geno would probably not have been suspended if the refs wouldn't have swallowed the whistle when he was crosschecked and then punched in the back of the head, prior to his stick swinging.
The refs have shafted us repeatedly, which is why we needed an enforcer. When game officials can't call a game fairly, sometimes you have to take things into your own hands. We had the very best enforcer in the game, but our nitwit coach refused to recognize a need for him. Sadly, he proved to be a good hockey player through Vegas's playoff run last year. Now our team is forced to deal with other teams tough guys taking liberties on our best players with no recourse for their actions. If they had to answer to Reeves for their transgressions, this stuff would not be happening.
I don't see how anyone can continually accept their best players being hit from behind and hit in the head. Rutherford tried to do something about it, Sullivan would not play along. Sullivan is a roll 4 lines guy. He believes on making opponents pay with power play goals.
I know if I am Letang or Crosby, I would prefer another approach.
Are you new to Penguins hockey? Our superstars have been taking a beating with no protection since 1980.
For the most part I agree. We had Caulfield, Larocque and Reeves.
My favorite Pens Coach was Marc Boileau. We had players who had each other's back. If anyone was abused, there would be retaliation. No one was worrying about power plays.
That would be the kind of coach and team I would want to play for.
Yeah, but no one with even half a brain would ever count on the NHL to do the correct thing in any situation.
The Penguins have employed some of the most worthless goons in the game during those years.
Shortly over 10 years ago I left this team for dead. We saw what happened to end that season. I still believe this year’s version is toast but a lot can change in six weeks.
Souf,
No, I don't think he will be suspended.
The NHL rule on hits to the head leaves 3 options and mainly depending on whether the hit is avoidable vs non-avoidable and whether a deliberate attempt to injure vs no deliberate attempt to injure ...... it is of course somewhat subjective depending on how the officials "see" the play .....
1) If the hit to the head is unavoidable, for example, the player being hit moves his position at the last second before the hit so that the player delivering the check didn't have time to avoid the head hit = NO PENALTY.
2) If the hit was avoidable in the officials view but deemed not a deliberate attempt to injure = 2 MINUTE MINOR, no suspension.
3) If the hit was avoidable in the officials view and he felt there was a deliberate attempt to injure = MATCH PENALTY, 5 minute major, game misconduct, and possible suspension by the league.
I think the officials in this instance didn't call a penalty because they didn't see the head hit, if they would have, I think they would have called the 2 minute minor penalty (avoidable but not a deliberate attempt to injure)...... again the rule is to some extent subjective on whether the official sees the penalty, whether he thinks it was avoidable, and whether he thinks there was intent to injure.
The league could review the play but I doubt they would issue any suspension.
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Even Simmonds thought it was a major.Did you notice he didn't sit down in the penalty box right away?That's a sure sign of guilt.
Interesting Black Panther,
Even though a penalty wasn't called on the play, the league could review the play and I suppose that if they felt the check to the head was avoidable and because Dumoulin was concussed, they could consider some action ...... haven't heard anything to that effect yet and I'm not holding my breathe they will take any action against Simmonds.
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