OT: The mess that is the Penguins

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Man the boys are rolling. That was fun last night. The Malkin line is insane. I would have no problem giving up a Sprong or something like that for Brassard. I think the Pens will do something like this. They are again a balanced team with 4 good lines and depth up front. Letang was absolutely fantastic last night, best he has played all year, as good as a Dman I have seen play all year, if he is rounding into 2016 playoff form, we are in a good place.

When I started this thread, the team looked dead. But I said you got to give them until the All Star break before deciding to make a panic move and what direction this team was going. Since then, the big boys have woke up, Murray is playing well, and all lines are rolling.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

BOoooooooooooo. Come on, I also lived 5 years in the south and no way do the cities down there have pizza like Pittsburgh. Sorry. No. Way.

I think it probably depends on one’s individual tastes as well as their experiences.

However, as someone who has also lived outside of the market - mostly in the midwest and south - I would also disagree with that statement.

Based strictly on my own personal experiences, Pittsburgh has several very good pizza places that hold their own with anywhere else I’ve been.

I really do think it comes down to an area’s native Italian population. If you’re not producing a lot of first and second and third generation Italians, you’re probably not producing very good pizza.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

The Penguins are playing better and Letang did have another excellent game last night. Really, he’s been playing much better for the past month or so. In fact, I think when he started to play better is when the Penguins started to win.

The same also applies to Matt Murray. As his play has improved, which has coincided with better play on the back end, the team’s success has followed.

I also think that Jamie Oleksiak has been a very underrated addition. He has definitely made a difference. That was a very underrated acquisition by Jim Rutherford. It reminds me a lot of the Ian Cole situation from a few years ago where he was being underutilized in St. Louis and then blossomed in Pittsburgh. The same thing appears to be happening with Oleksiak. That kid can clearly play and he has really helped bolster our blue line.

The Penguins still need a third line center. Riley Sheahan has played great for the past several weeks now, but I don’t feel comfortable going into playoffs with him in the number three hole.

If we can land a viable third line center and move him to the fourth slot, we would have strength down the middle that nobody else in the world can match. That doesn’t guarantee you anything with regard to the Cup, but it’s a hell of a nice place to start.

The problem of course is the prices are said to be astronomical right now. You know that’s true too because so few trades have been made league-wide.

I would NOT mortgage everything for a chance to repeat. I think that would be dumb business, IMHO.

That doesn’t mean we should be conservative or hoard prospects and/or draft picks. I’m not advocating that at all. If there’s a decent deal there to be made, even if its a little expensive - and it will be - we need to take it. However, I would not give away the farm to chase another Cup.

I say that because if we play our cards right, this window can remain open for five or six more years.

 

[Jpripper88]

BOoooooooooooo. Come on, I also lived 5 years in the south and no way do the cities down there have pizza like Pittsburgh. Sorry. No. Way.

Disagree. Atlanta, Nashville, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Austin have some great pizza places.

 

[goalieman]

The Penguins are playing better and Letang did have another excellent game last night. Really, he’s been playing much better for the past month or so. In fact, I think when he started to play better is when the Penguins started to win.

The same also applies to Matt Murray. As his play has improved, which has coincided with better play on the back end, the team’s success has followed.

I also think that Jamie Oleksiak has been a very underrated addition. He has definitely made a difference. That was a very underrated acquisition by Jim Rutherford. It reminds me a lot of the Ian Cole situation from a few years ago where he was being underutilized in St. Louis and then blossomed in Pittsburgh. The same thing appears to be happening with Oleksiak. That kid can clearly play and he has really helped bolster our blue line.

The Penguins still need a third line center. Riley Sheahan has played great for the past several weeks now, but I don’t feel comfortable going into playoffs with him in the number three hole.

If we can land a viable third line center and move him to the fourth slot, we would have strength down the middle that nobody else in the world can match. That doesn’t guarantee you anything with regard to the Cup, but it’s a hell of a nice place to start.

The problem of course is the prices are said to be astronomical right now. You know that’s true too because so few trades have been made league-wide.

I would NOT mortgage everything for a chance to repeat. I think that would be dumb business, IMHO.

That doesn’t mean we should be conservative or hoard prospects and/or draft picks. I’m not advocating that at all. If there’s a decent deal there to be made, even if its a little expensive - and it will be - we need to take it. However, I would not give away the farm to chase another Cup.

I say that because if we play our cards right, this window can remain open for five or six more years.

-Yeah, I agree with just about everything you say ...... plus, I think the young wingers who have come up from WBS and played well have helped a lot in improving and balancing the top 3 lines so that they can all score and defend .... the 4th line has been playing better also ...... some players coming back from injury has helped.

- The trade issue is a difficult one ..... like you, I'd like to obtain a good 3rd line center but think we may need some more depth on defense as well ...... what would be the price for a good 3rd line center ? ..... most sources think we might involve Cole or Hunwick in a trade for a 3rd line center ..... but it would probably take more then one of those to get the 3rd line center that we want ...... the problem is that we only have 8 D-men on our NHL roster and not much help at WBS ..... in addition, Ruhwedel is hurt and no time table for when he will be back so we are really down to 7 D-men right now and if you trade another one, we would be perilessily thin on the blue-line ..... making the best trade (if one is made) is going to be tricky and I agree not to sacrifice the future and we certainly don't want to make a trade that actually diminishes the team especially the way we are playing now..... we will see what Rutherford does .... should be interesting.

 

[goalieman]

Jarry in net tonight against Columbus.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Get on the Sheehan bandwagon!

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

No, a top four D would be far more expensive than a 3C. We may add another defenseman – in fact, I think we probably should. However, it’s going to be a depth guy or someone who can be had for a mid or low round pick.

This has been my point all along with Letang. He eats up so many minutes and plays in so many different situations that he alleviates that need.

I can’t tell you how lucky we are to have him on our side. He is absolutely the most underrated Pittsburgh Penguin I have ever seen.

When he is playing the way he has been playing for the past several weeks now, fast and aggressive and with an edge and physical in his own end, we are brutally difficult to beat.

I like Sheahan and he has played wonderfully as well for the past several weeks. However, he’s a 4C if I’ve ever seen one and I believe that another legitimate top nine C makes the Penguins much more than formidable. It might make them the favorites again - depending on what they get in return and what they are forced to surrender.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Speaking of a possible trade, I really don’t want any wingers because I don’t think that really improves our team. I don’t really want Evander Kane or Rick Nash and I don’t want some of the other names that are popping up either.

However, I will offer one caveat. Michael Grabner from the Rangers is said to be available and there is a rumor that Pittsburgh is interested in him.

I certainly wouldn’t be willing to mortgage the farm for a UFA and I would still prefer a center to any winger. However, he would fit in here extraordinarily well and I would be interested in kicking the tires on him.

If Pittsburgh could add Grabner, their PK would be ridiculous. Also splitting up Grabner, Rust and Hagelin on three different lines they could drive everyone completely insane with their forecheck.

Again, he’s going to be a highly sought after asset and I do expect him to get traded before the trade deadline. Also, I don’t expect it to work out with Pittsburgh. However, he’s probably the only winger I would have any interest in adding because of his uniquely blazing speed!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Here's my thoughts on trade. Sprong and/or Gustavsson are nice chips, but the Pens also need to trade salary. I would suspect they are hard pushing to trade Sheary with ZAR's emergence, Rust's versatility, and Hornquist and Kuhnackl coming back from injuries, he is definitely expendable. You know who else is expendable? Jake Guentzel. Just saying, you got to go big or go home.

I would still go hard after Brassard, just because that balances out the team so well. Hunwick has looked his best the last two games, and if he could be traded, fine, but if not, now you have nice depth on defense with him as a 7 and Ruwehdal an 8.
I still like getting that 3rd line Center. Though Grabner should be cheaper and interesting.

Going forward if healthy....
Sid, ZAR and??? Guentzel?
Geno, Hagelin and Rust
Brassard, Kessel and Hornquist
Sheahan, Kuhnackl, Rowney/Reaves.

 

[Jakey_John]

I was thinking about putting Guentzel on the trade block the other day. As you suggested the Pens could get a huge return. However the downside is losing the post season production that was absolutely incredible last year. This is a risky proposition especially with Bonino already gone.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

There’s no way in hell I would trade Guentzel. Guys like Sheary, Rust, and Hagelin - I guess. However, Guentzel is on a different level than all those other guys. He is a very important player on this team.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

There’s no way in hell I would trade Guentzel. Guys like Sheary, Rust, and Hagelin - I guess. However, Guentzel is on a different level than all those other guys. He is a very important player on this team.

Sometimes you have to give to get. We have lots of wingers. I am not saying trade him, and his salary is affordable right now unlike Sheary. But still, I didn't want to trade Cullen and Zalapski too.....or Recchi.

 

[Jakey_John]

There’s no way in hell I would trade Guentzel. Guys like Sheary, Rust, and Hagelin - I guess. However, Guentzel is on a different level than all those other guys. He is a very important player on this team.

If we weren’t coming off of two cup runs I would agree but the time to strike is now. If trading Guentzel provides the best opportunity for the trifecta then you have to do it. Guentzel had a hell of a run last year, no doubt. However, Rust did the year before and he’s playing lights out right now too. It will all depend on whats in front of JR next week.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Yeah, let me rephrase that. I would trade anyone if the return was right. I don’t think Derek Brassard is worth that though.

Guentzel is a better, more important player than Rust, Sheary, etc. He’s not of the same caliber, that’s all I’m saying.

I think for Pittsburgh to win its third consecutive Stanley Cup, it’s going to need quality three offensive lines. That’s the whole key to everything. That makes them virtually impossible to match up against defensively.

I really like the idea of Guentzel and Kessel on the third line with a quality center.

 

[Patnards]

Here's my thoughts on trade. Sprong and/or Gustavsson are nice chips, but the Pens also need to trade salary. I would suspect they are hard pushing to trade Sheary with ZAR's emergence, Rust's versatility, and Hornquist and Kuhnackl coming back from injuries, he is definitely expendable. You know who else is expendable? Jake Guentzel. Just saying, you got to go big or go home.

I would still go hard after Brassard, just because that balances out the team so well. Hunwick has looked his best the last two games, and if he could be traded, fine, but if not, now you have nice depth on defense with him as a 7 and Ruwehdal an 8.
I still like getting that 3rd line Center. Though Grabner should be cheaper and interesting.

Going forward if healthy....
Sid, ZAR and??? Guentzel?
Geno, Hagelin and Rust
Brassard, Kessel and Hornquist
Sheahan, Kuhnackl, Rowney/Reaves.

You know what you're looking for if you trade Jake Guenzel? A player with Jake Guentzel like production. Trading him makes zero sense

 

[UPitt 1999]

Yeah, let me rephrase that. I would trade anyone if the return was right. I don’t think Derek Brassard is worth that though.

Guentzel is a better, more important player than Rust, Sheary, etc. He’s not of the same caliber, that’s all I’m saying.

I think for Pittsburgh to win its third consecutive Stanley Cup, it’s going to need quality three offensive lines. That’s the whole key to everything. That makes them virtually impossible to match up against defensively.

I really like the idea of Guentzel and Kessel on the third line with a quality center.

Owtie is the only guy that would think of this. It’s not only moronic but Would NEVER happen.

 

[Jpripper88]

I would definitely not trade Guentzel or the ransom being discussed for Brassard. Now, if they would take Sheary and some lesser pick or prospect I would possibly pull the trigger on that, but for Brassard as a rental it is a huge price to pay.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I remember back in 2013, when Pittsburgh traded for Jarome Iginla, I really liked the deal at the time. However, it was very obvious pretty early on that I was wrong and he did not fit.

The Penguins’ line of Crosby centering Dupuis and Kunitz was the best line in the NHL that year. There was never any thought of breaking up that line - nor should they have.

I think the plan all along was to put Iginla on the right side and move Neal to the left side on our second line.

However, Neal had to play on the right side to be effective because he could not get rid of his famously wicked wrist shot from that side.

Unfortunately, Iginla was also lost on the left side because he was a guy who always excelled along the boards and he was now playing with the wrong hand.

Then, in a desperation move, Pittsburgh decided to break up the first line and they put him with Crosby. Unfortunately, he just wasn’t fast enough to keep up. It was a little bit like what’s still happening in Edmonton with Milan Lucic and Connor McDavid. Lucic is a good player in the right system. However, he simply can’t keep up with No. 97, and as a result, he is basically useless to that team.

Anyway, all that is a way of saying that way back in 2013, I realized that in order to win in the NHL nowadays, you need at least THREE scoring lines. The days of the Anaheim Ducks winning with a “top six” and a “bottom six” is as antiquated way to look at things. You might as well put all right-handed players on the right wing and all lefties players on the left side.

At the time, there was tremendous resistance to my idea of putting Iggy on the third line with Brandon Sutter. I think that would’ve worked out far better than anything else we tried. However, we will never know because Disco Dan refused to do it as well.

Then, in the playoffs, Boston just shut down our big guns by matching up. We finally played Iginla on the third line late in that series and we started to have some success. Alas, it was far too late.

I think we would have won the Stanley Cup had we employed a better strategy. Unfortunately, the attitude at the time was that Iginla was a Hall of Famer and you can’t insult him by putting him on the third line. It was dumb - as Sullivan conclusively proved with the HBK line in 2016.

Right now, Pittsburgh is playing with three centers. Rowney never plays, except on the PK. The rest of the time the other centers just take turns double shifting - mostly Crosby.

That’s not going to work.

We need to be able to run four lines- including three legitimate scoring lines - to overcome deep defensive teams like Boston, Tampa, Nashville, etc. That’s the key to the whole deal. I think trading Guentzel would likely not allow us to do that, which is why I am opposed to the idea.

I think Pittsburgh is probably going to trade Hunwick and Sprong or one of the young goaltenders. That looks to me how this is most likely shaping up and that should net a healthy return. If God doesn’t entice anyone else, then maybe the prices are just a little bit too high and we roll with what we have and hope for the best.

 

[rmf05]

Yeah, I think one of the young goaltenders is gone. Its absurd how talented we are in goal. I haven't been following the kid in Sweden for the past month or so but I have a couple co-workers who follow hockey like a religion and they say he is a future star and probably the the biggest prize out there on the trade wires. If you move him, you better get more than a 3rd line center.

 

[WiseAndGlorious]

Looking to move Hunwick currently.. Would like to move him and Sheary and bring in a 2nd pair D man..

Not sure how much trade value Hunwick has at this point. He is 32, has underperformed in his time here and $2.25million isn't a ton, but probably more than most teams want to pay a 6-7th D man for two more years. I get wanting to unload him to clear cap for an addition, but they likely need to send additional assets to convince another team to take that contract.

 

[Jpripper88]

I haven't followed his play enough to know how much is on him and how much is on Cullen vs. Minnesota, but even just having his presence as 4C would be very big. Obviously that would cost basically nothing. In fact, I would be a fan of trading a 5th or so for him, keeping Hunwick for depth, and still trading Sheary for a true 3C. Of course, that would mean Cullen would have to be ok with being a healthy scratch (much of the discontent in Minnesota) most of the time in Pittsburgh. However, that would really protect us in the even of an injury up the middle and protect against slumping play from Sheahan or the newly acquired 3C.

I think if the Pens could trade Sheary for Pageau, a 5th for Cullen, and hold onto Hunwick, we would have the skill and depth to really make the 3 peat run. Plus, Pageau is on basically the exact same contract as Sheary and solves our 3C for the next two seasons at a reasonable rate. If only we could have back that terrible trade for Reaves.

 

[WiseAndGlorious]

I think if the Pens could trade Sheary for Pageau, a 5th for Cullen, and hold onto Hunwick, we would have the skill and depth to really make the 3 peat run. Plus, Pageau is on basically the exact same contract as Sheary and solves our 3C for the next two seasons at a reasonable rate. If only we could have back that terrible trade for Reaves.

I agree that their best bet might be to go small, hang onto Hunwick and get Cullen. However, I don't think Ottawa trades Pageau for Sheary straight up. Sounds like he is in demand and they are going to have better offers than that. Plus a center has inherently more value than a winger, especially for a team that looks to be rebuilding.

 

[Jpripper88]

I agree that their best bet might be to go small, hang onto Hunwick and get Cullen. However, I don't think Ottawa trades Pageau for Sheary straight up. Sounds like he is in demand and they are going to have better offers than that. Plus a center has inherently more value than a winger, especially for a team that looks to be rebuilding.

Yeah, that could be true with Pageau, but I'd sweeten that deal, if we had to in order to get JGP. I think having him locked in as 3C for the next 2.5 years would be really big and better balance our salaries with our young cheap Ws.

What do you think we would have to add to Sheary to do that deal? Swap our 2nd for their 3rd in 2018 or 19? I'd do that. I'd be open to a prospect, instead, but Gustavson isn't as valuable to them considering their system.

 

[WiseAndGlorious]

Yeah, that could be true with Pageau, but I'd sweeten that deal, if we had to in order to get JGP. I think having him locked in as 3C for the next 2.5 years would be really big and better balance our salaries with our young cheap Ws.

What do you think we would have to add to Sheary to do that deal? Swap our 2nd for their 3rd in 2018 or 19? I'd do that. I'd be open to a prospect, instead, but Gustavson isn't as valuable to them considering their system.

Good question. TSN reported that the Pens and Sens had some discussion on Derek Brassard and the ask was supposedly 1st + prospect (Sprong, Jarry, Gustavson) + an NHL player (maybe Sheary). He is a legit 3rd line center, although playing on their 2nd, and is under contract next year. Pageau isn't the same prize, but has two more years under contract and is 5 years younger.

I think the other thing that makes it tough to deal with them is that Melnyk is dumping salary, and the Pens need to shed some to add either player. I'm not sure Sheary is attractive to them for that reason. I think they are ideally targeting young cost controlled players, prospects and picks. So it might take say, Sprong and 2nd and they would have to deal Sheary to a third team or dump Hunwick.

 

[Jpripper88]

Good question. TSN reported that the Pens and Sens had some discussion on Derek Brassard and the ask was supposedly 1st + prospect (Sprong, Jarry, Gustavson) + an NHL player (maybe Sheary). He is a legit 3rd line center, although playing on their 2nd, and is under contract next year. Pageau isn't the same prize, but has two more years under contract and is 5 years younger.

I think the other thing that makes it tough to deal with them is that Melnyk is dumping salary, and the Pens need to shed some to add either player. I'm not sure Sheary is attractive to them for that reason. I think they are ideally targeting young cost controlled players, prospects and picks. So it might take say, Sprong and 2nd and they would have to deal Sheary to a third team or dump Hunwick.

I'd be ok with that later scenario depending on the turn for Sheary or whether we have to send assets to dump Hunwick.

If they are going to mortgage the future to push for the cup I would rather pay for lesser, but 2+ year impact like Pageau, even though he isn't as good a player as Brassard.

I realize the window will close shut at some point., but I don't want it slammed for several years just hoping we get really luck in the lottery, again.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I’m telling you, get on the Sheehan bandwagon.

He’s why they aren’t going to give up too much for a trade.
He’s doing all the things they want and getting better and better

 

[88Pitt88]

I’m telling you, get on the Sheehan bandwagon.

He’s why they aren’t going to give up too much for a trade.
He’s doing all the things they want and getting better and better

Agree. Love the team as currently constructed. I don't think Rutherford has to do anything, which puts him in a nice position. If he gets a deal he likes fine, if not, he stands pat and doesn't overpay like other teams will be doing.

 

[Fireballz Fan]

Agree. Love the team as currently constructed. I don't think Rutherford has to do anything, which puts him in a nice position. If he gets a deal he likes fine, if not, he stands pat and doesn't overpay like other teams will be doing.

Grabner for Sheary and 3rd in 2019

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Grabner for Sheary and 3rd in 2019

In a heartbeat

 

[Jakey_John]

I hope the target someone other than Brasard too. Not because he’s not good but he’s the hot name at the deadline this year and someone will overpay. There are cheaper and just as effective options out there.

 

[JD1976]

Grabner to the Devils. Done deal.

 

[Pucks of Phil]

Grabner to the Devils. Done deal.

They wanted more than JR would give up for Grabner. 2018 3rd and 4th in 19 was our best offer


It will be Kane or Brassard, unless we do something off the wall..

 

[88Pitt88]

Grabner would have been fine for the right price. I think Oleksiak and Sheahan were this years big moves, so what if they didn't come at the deadline. These two, along with Letang beginning to play like Letang and not some imposter wearing number 58, have made this team a top caliber cup challenger. In fact, I would argue that as currently constituted, we are a much better team than last years cup winner.

 

[Jpripper88]

I think we have to at least pick up a depth C. We can't fully trust Sheahan AND double shift everyone with Rowney the only other C option. At a minimum we need a guy who is a decent option as a 3C. Considering the cost of that vs. the risk of not getting it, the Pens should find a way to get at least that done. Obviously I would prefer something more like JG Pageau, which solves 3C long term and allows Sheahan to be more appropriately placed as 4C, but there doesn't seem to be much rumbling about that. At this point, I'd probably pay Sheary and a mid round pick for Pageau, maybe even a 2nd.

 

[Pucks of Phil]

I think we have to at least pick up a depth C. We can't fully trust Sheahan AND double shift everyone with Rowney the only other C option. At a minimum we need a guy who is a decent option as a 3C. Considering the cost of that vs. the risk of not getting it, the Pens should find a way to get at least that done. Obviously I would prefer something more like JG Pageau, which solves 3C long term and allows Sheahan to be more appropriately placed as 4C, but there doesn't seem to be much rumbling about that. At this point, I'd probably pay Sheary and a mid round pick for Pageau, maybe even a 2nd.

Melnyk isn’t getting rid of a young and CHEAP player from his team. That won’t happen..

 

[Jpripper88]

Melnyk isn’t getting rid of a young and CHEAP player from his team. That won’t happen..

Well, there has been talk of it and in return he would be getting a young and cheap player on an even cheaper contract. Sheary has a $100k lower cap number and is owed $850k less in salary over the next 2 1/4 seasons.

 

[Pucks of Phil]

Well, there has been talk of it and in return he would be getting a young and cheap player on an even cheaper contract. Sheary has a $100k lower cap number and is owed $850k less in salary over the next 2 1/4 seasons.

If he trades Pageau, it won’t be for another Roster player. Especially not Sheary, who has 4 goals in 3 months.

 

[Jpripper88]

If he trades Pageau, it won’t be for another Roster player. Especially not Sheary, who has 4 goals in 3 months.

I don't think they will trade Pageau and I don't think the Pens will trade Sheary, but the deal and those pieces have been rumored. They make a lot of sense both ways.

 

[Jakey_John]

Brassard for Cole and a 1st rounder. I’m kind of meh on this deal but I like Cole more than I probably should.