Yes. They have him I think till 2022 or 2023 but if he continues to progress toward superstardom, what will they do in 2024?
OT:Buccos
- Thread starter pittbb80
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He'll be 32 then. He won't be trending to superstardom anymore unless steroids come back.
has nothing to do with the 60's, anyone but the uninformed know that. Why are there relievers in the HOF, Moneybalz? And there will be more to come. Who was that recent reliever for the Yankees who did alright for a few years-was that the 60's, Moneybalz? Relievers are even more important today than they were in the 60's-80's because today's starters are pansies. You can fool the idiots in your brigade with your whacky, unsubstantiated ides but that's it. I'd like to put you on TV so you can share your nonsense with the world; everyone would laugh at you. Your ideas would have been considered stupid in 1970 and no one gives credence to them today either. Young guy like you playing with his slide rule on Saturday night...that's a shame.
Relievers are in the hall of fame because guys like Murray Chass are part of the BBWAA.
Velocity. The expectation now is that you throw max effort for 100 pitches, with your fastballs going 92+ MPH. Back in the old days, guys could just throw 82-85 MPH all game and it made no difference. The hitters weren't as good.
I have some old Baseball America magazines from the 80's and they made a big deal out of guys who threw 90 MPH. They used to have a baseball with flames around it that said "90+ MPH" on their capsule. Jeff Locke is viewed as a finesse pitcher in today's game, and he averages 91 MPH.
The burnout rate back then was also pretty bad. Koufax was done by age 30. They try to prolong careers now.
If Polanco doesn't retire here at age 47 with an .813 OPS, then Nutsack is a cheapo.
There are 29 starting pitchers paid more than the highest paid relief pitcher this year (and two more tied in salary with him). There are 37 staring pitchers paid more than the second highest paid relief pitcher. The people who run major league baseball teams understand the relative importance of relief pitchers in baseball. You obviously do not.
Look, I think the Pirates have been smart with their money. They have figured out that they need a competitive team to fill the seats with fans. They get this, and they have a blueprint to follow to keep it that way. However, their ultimate goal should be winning the world series,and I just don't have enough faith in this ownership to identify and correct weaknesses of the team year in and year out. Enjoy your competitive team, maybe one year they can luck into a title, but under Nutsack I have my doubts!
Nuttings are doing exactly what they want. They want to put asss in seats, but don't want to win, cost to much. They have useful idiots that support this , i don't. I call that being a cheap bastard, others here call it moneyballz, go Nuttings wallet, go Nuttings wallet!
I don't blame Nutting, he is running a business. In baseball most owners use the team to show how big their balls are. They are very successful in other areas, and willing to lose money to win championships. Nuttings use the city tax payer and team to make money and that's ok as well.
Also, baseball economics are different from most sports , and you have to overpay, nature of the beast. Most players never give back the reward vs their risk, but those are the rules. Nutting doesn't play that game at all, and that's his right.
If you watch the pirates cause it makes you feel good, then so be it if you watch them to see a championship, you are not very bright , sorry. I forgot more about baseball then some of you will ever learn or know. I played all the way through college and coached.
Also, baseball economics are different from most sports , and you have to overpay, nature of the beast. Most players never give back the reward vs their risk, but those are the rules. Nutting doesn't play that game at all, and that's his right.
If you watch the pirates cause it makes you feel good, then so be it if you watch them to see a championship, you are not very bright , sorry. I forgot more about baseball then some of you will ever learn or know. I played all the way through college and coached.
Kansas City and San Fran have plenty of holes in their lineup each year and contend.
Look, I think if anyone knew how bad the stasting pitching and bullpen would be, they would have done something.
As for the actual lineup, it is one of the best in baseball. You can't have Bryce Harper at every position. The weak link is Mercer and even he is probably about league average for his position.
The lineup is solid, not great. To me, McCutcheon sucking this year is a bigger problem than Jordy Mercer. Jordy Mercer is at least an avg. MLB shortstop.
The real problem is pitching. The Pirates never really approach pitching as the most critical part of the game, which it is. Liriano can't throw strikes for more than 4 or 5 innings. Cole is hurt. Niece, Nicasio, and Locke are very inconsistent, not to mention the bullpen struggles.
Undoubtedly, the Pirates will turn to the young arms in the system, but they are not all ready and the need is great right now. Thank God, the Pirates have made progress in stacking talent in their system. Going out and buying quality pitching is to expensive for Nutsack to even consider.
Nevermijd the fact that outside of like 11 starts last year, Happ was essentially Jeff Locke for his career.
As anyone who reads you on the topic knows, if you did ever know anything about baseball the amount you have forgotten is stunning.
I forgot , Happ was too much money. I wished I owned the Pirates and had morons carrying water for me
Wasn't money, it was number of years on the contract. Same situation as with Russell Martin.
We're seeing it with Liriano now. Going more than 1 or 2 years with a free agent is super risky. They're nearly always past their prime, except for a rare case like Jason Heyward when he hits the market at 26.
And, Liriano had a MUCH stronger track record than Happ. Niese has a stronger track record as well.
Small market teams can't withstand dead money on bad contracts. Look what happened with Cincy, Milwaukee, and Minnesota. They spent way too much money way too quickly and it sank them prematurely.
The Pirates will damage themselves more by spending than they will by continuing to build through their farm system. Free agency is dead, and has been for several years. When is the last time the media anointed "winners of the offseason" actually wound up being good? San Diego sucked, Boston sucked after getting Sandoval and Ramirez and Castillo, Arizona is awful, Washington missed the playoffs last year.
And, by nature the winner of the World Series is lucky. The best team rarely wins it, the entire playoff system mirrors the NCAA's in its randomness and unpredictability. The Pirates could be the best team in baseball (or, 2nd best) and it would still require a tremendous amount of good fortune.
Also, I realize this concept will go over the heads of the people who insist they are really smart about baseball economics despite offering no facts or substance to support that claim, but it's worth noting that most teams aren't really spending that much more than the Pirates on their actual 25 man roster.
Of the Dodgers' $243MM payroll, they are paying $110MM to players who aren't even on their roster. They are also paying Scott Kazmir, Howie Kendrick, and Chase Utley a combined $30MM. LINK
So, they could essentially spend $100MM in payroll and more or less have their exact same team. The names might be different, but the production wouldn't be.
The advantage of a large payroll isn't the ability to hoard talent, it's the ability to not be crippled by bad deals. The Dodgers, Cubs, Giants, Cardinals, Yankees, Red Sox, etc. have that luxury. The Pirates, Reds, Brewers, Twins, etc. do not.
Of the Dodgers' $243MM payroll, they are paying $110MM to players who aren't even on their roster. They are also paying Scott Kazmir, Howie Kendrick, and Chase Utley a combined $30MM. LINK
So, they could essentially spend $100MM in payroll and more or less have their exact same team. The names might be different, but the production wouldn't be.
The advantage of a large payroll isn't the ability to hoard talent, it's the ability to not be crippled by bad deals. The Dodgers, Cubs, Giants, Cardinals, Yankees, Red Sox, etc. have that luxury. The Pirates, Reds, Brewers, Twins, etc. do not.
Agree. This was not a "bridge" year, but it was a year where margins were thin, that everything had to go well. With Cervelli out until late end of July and maybe Cole out a month or so, if the Bucs are out or look to be out in July, time to take a mulligan, trade Melancon, pitch some kids, look at what you might get for Cutch, maybe not at the deadline but the offseason and move on to next year.
One good thing........you can't take pitching for granted, and I think this franchise did this past offseason.
I know, but what about guys like Seaver, Carlton, and especially Ryan? I almost think guys are too muscular now, they have such stress on their joints/arms.
But to give a big contract to a pitcher over 29 is just stupid? And big, I mean term not annual salary. That is what people like Del and others can't understand. It is not the $20 million a year that gets you....it is the $20 million a year 5 years from now that does.
I will be honest, I'm surprised we are not 6 games under right now. When you trot out all those "savings" to the mound every 5 days, it's a miracle, but at least Nutting saved a few bucks
They're paying Liriano and Niese pretty handsomely. So it's not their fault, you can't be bad if you get paid money. Paying money solves everything. The Giants are tickled pink that they're paying a combined $40MM to Matt Cain and Jake Peavy I'm sure.
How about all the players who are helping teams win , why don't you list them.
I have more power than half our starters in the field , sad.
I have more power than half our starters in the field , sad.
With that bum as an owner, they will always be 3 bricks shy of a load.They will never be able to develop a quality everyday lineup and pitching staff with guys coming out of their system- add to that they will never resign every quality player they develop and they won't acquire key pieces in free agency. Destined to be boobie prize chasers.
Most of the guys I list would be developed internally, so, not sure it would help your point.
You certainly sound very accomplished for posting like a 13-year old. I'm sure your dad tells you all the time you have the best power he's ever seen in his life, he certainly sounds like he knows what he's talking about with sports.
Hahahaha for all of the "watch a team that tries" claims you make, your big complaint so far has been not signing the equivalent of Jeff Locke to a big deal this offseason.
I think I'm okay with them not trying if that's the standard. JA Happ can tie up payroll somewhere else for 3 years, I'll watch Taillon and Glasnow get their feet wet in his stead and feel pretty good about things.
Bob Walk avaliable , Lee Tunnel, Candyman, Drabek, , even Round Tripper Kipper called, I am sure they will work cheap
Ah. I get it.
Between your concern with payroll and randomly interjecting pro-gun issues into the debate, you just overcompensate for, um, shortcomings through your sports teams and handgun collection. Don't worry, I'm not gonna try to come and steal your .45.
I was in the stands the game Scott Loucks played right field for the Pirates. Nuttings should give him a call
Oh, you're old. That would explain the mentality from the 70's where you think you should pay for past performance rather than future production.
Impotence issues then? I'm fascinated by you and Del and your insistence on ignoring facts for the sake of making yourselves miserable.
If you pay attention closely, I promise baseball becomes way more enjoyable. It doesn't have to be like this. You can actually learn how the game works and not obsess about stupid stuff like payroll and whether or not you should sign a 33-year old who has been declining but has a name you recognize.
As I said in the OP I just don't think the BUcs have it this year. They may make a run at the end of the year but I just don't see them turning things around quick enough to make the playoffs
Cutch is now below 250 and is striking out a lot. Not sure what's wrong but he's a shell of himself at the plate
Frankly is a home run machine.
The bull pen is incredibly inconsistent
And beyond Cole who had been far from dominating and Niese whose been decent till today. The starters have been awful. Talllon looked really good but they need at least two more starters to come around.
Far too many issues to get fixed for this team to make the playoffs. The cards series has been a disaster
Cutch is now below 250 and is striking out a lot. Not sure what's wrong but he's a shell of himself at the plate
Frankly is a home run machine.
The bull pen is incredibly inconsistent
And beyond Cole who had been far from dominating and Niese whose been decent till today. The starters have been awful. Talllon looked really good but they need at least two more starters to come around.
Far too many issues to get fixed for this team to make the playoffs. The cards series has been a disaster
At this point, that's probably right. Thought they might be okay if they could weather the first part of the season until Taillon and Glasnow came up -- and they looked like they might -- but with Cervelli hurt (and Diaz hurt in AAA), Vogelsong hurt (he wasn't great, but he was their best option as a long man by far), Cole looking like he'll miss time, Kang still not at 100%, and Cutch claiming he has a thumb injury (god I hope that's what the issue is and he's not just getting old) then it might just not happen this year.
Set up well for 2, 3, 4 years down the road, which is really what matters. Don't ever sacrifice the future for the sake of going "all-in". There's no evidence that going all-in leads to anything. Best way to win a World Series is to get to the playoffs consistently, which they should still be set up to do barring injury.
Buc-2016-unfortunately, headed down the toilet as predicted. You had some pie in the sky outlook because you're a Nutting sycophant-wouldn't be surprised if you worked for them given all the selling you're constantly doing on his behalf. Prospects...give me a break. They will will always have a half dozen holes in their lineup or pitching staff which they will be too cheap to plug. That's their history. Have no time for your ROI nonsense.
Don't go all in, Moneybalz, you might hurt yourself.
